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> HMS Docks in Mediterraneo, situazione a fine 1941
Lefa
Inviato il: Sabato, 22-Giu-2013, 09:38
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Buongiorno ragazzi,

come da titolo vorrei ricostruire (non credo sia difficile) la situazione dei bacini - sia galleggianti che in muratura - a disposizione degli inglesi in Mediterraneo, solo quelli capaci di ospitare navi da 30.000.

Mi interessa ricostruire la logistica disponibile in quanto sto analizzando alcuni aspetti dell'azione di Alessandria sotto una nuova luce.
A proposito della notte di Alessandria: avete sentito che ora è una ricorrenza ufficiale da celebrare a bordo o a terra con cerimonia, svolgimento dei fatti e pranzo?

Grazie!

[edit]

Ad esempio, quello di Alessandria era l'AFD-5 (?) portato da Portsmouth.
Malta ne aveva uno capace di ospitare navi da battaglia ma risulta affondato per bombardamento il 21 Giugno del 1940.
Gibilterra invece? strutture a terra ne avevano?

In questo thread si trovano molte informazioni interessanti sugli Admiralty Floating Docks: http://www.worldnavalships.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5167

[edit2]

Sempre dal medesimo thread, vedo che i bacini galleggianti in grado di ospitare navi da battaglia erano 7:


AFD4 - Capacity 33,000 tons. Built by Swan Hunter Wigham & Richardson 1912. The Medway dock. Portland, Devonport.
AFD5 - Capacity 31,500 tons. Built by Cammell Laird 1912. The Portsmouth dock. Alexandria, Bermuda, Falmouth. Sunk.
AFD8 - Capacity 65,000 tons (after extension from 40,000 tons). Ex German dock circa 1919. Sheerness, Malta. Sunk.
AFD9 - Capacity 55,000 tons. Built by Swan Hunter Wigham & Richardson 1927. Singapore. Scuttled. Salvaged.
AFD11 – Capacity 60,000 tons .Built by Armstrong Whitworth 1924. The Southampton dock. Portsmouth, Rotterdam, Sunk.
AFD23 – Capacity 50,000 tons. Built in Bombay 1947. Trincomalee (HMS Valiant) dock. Sunk.
AFD35 – Capacity 50,000 tons. Sections built at Karachi, built in Bombay 1947. Malta.

Quindi i bacini assegnati al Mediterraneo sembrano tre, il N°5, 8 e 35; direi che mi sono risposto da solo a meno che a qualcuno non risultino altri dati.. winner.gif

Messaggio modificato da Lefa il Sabato, 22-Giu-2013, 12:38


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de domenico
Inviato il: Lunedì, 24-Giu-2013, 13:13
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AFD 5 (32.000 tons lift) built by Cammell Laird at Birkenhead, launch 14.8.1912, completed 8.1912, sold Maryland SB & DD, Baltimore, 12.1965, after section foundered in heavy weather while in tow 400 nm SW Scilly Isles 6.5.1966
AFD 8 (65.000 t) ex No.VIII, built Howaldtswerke Kiel, completed 1917, to UK 1919, new centre section built Chatham DY 1923/25 and inserted 17/10/1925, beached and scrapped Malta 1940s
AFD 23 (50.000 t) built Braithwaite, Burn & Jessop, Calcutta, sections assembled at Bombay, launch (section 23/M or middle) 21.4.1943 & completed (section 23/F or forward) 7.1944, collapsed lifting HMS VALIANT at Trincomalee 8.8.1944 & foundered following day, salved 1957/68, sold for b/up Taiwan, arrived Kaohsiung 29.4.1970 for scrapping
AFD 35 (50.000 t) same builders as AFD 23, completed 5.1946, sold to C. Basada, La Valletta, 10.9.1964, then to C.Y. Tung 9.1965, Yokohama 1966, Hong Kong 1971.
AFD 22 (2.750 t), built Chatham DY, launch 7.12.1942 & completed 4.1943, sold to Husband's SY, Southampton, 1981, to Cantiere E. Noè, Augusta, 1983.
AFD 24 (18.000 t) ex YFD.6 ? (USN), completed 20.10.1942, broke tow & wrecked 60 nm SW of Derna 9.2.1945
AFD 27 (59.000 t), built CNR Palermo, completed 1936, acquired 9.1941, sold Netherlands East Indies Govt. 5.3.1947, sold Batavier (Tandjung Priok) 1948
AFD 29 (7.000/9.500 t) built La Spezia, completed 1936, acquired 1942, sold Interservice Genevalux 1947
AFD 30 (1.600/2.500 t) , built in Italy, acquired 1942, sold Halal Shipping, Aden, 8.5.1946
AFD 45 (750 t), built by Arroll at Meadowside (sections assembled by Franco Tosi at Taranto, completed 3.1946), on loan Royal Hellenic Navy 1946-1950.
AFD 46 (750 t) also built at Meadowside & assembled by Franco Tosi at Taranto, completed 3.1946, sold S &S Marine at Sunderland 1981
AFD 47 (750 t) ordered 1943 to Arroll for assembly at Taranto, laid down 1945 but cancelled 10.1945
AFD 48 (800 t) built outright by Franco Tosi, launch 18.3.1945 & completed 1945, sold Bermuda Govt 1950, scuttled there 1972
AFD 49 (800 t) idem, launch 18.2.1945 & completed 1945, sold Sembawang SY (Singapore) 8.12.1968
AFD 54 (120 t) built Alexandria, completed 9.1944, to Royal Air Force (Canal Zone) 1945

Messaggio modificato da de domenico il Lunedì, 24-Giu-2013, 14:10


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culverin
Inviato il: Sabato, 02-Gen-2016, 21:54
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Many members here will have seen the article in Warship 2010 on Admiralty Floating Docks by Dr Ian Buxton.
It covers the AFD in plenty of detail with AFD 23 probably the most notorious with the damage to HMS Valiant caused by non existant preparations.

Closer to home in the Med was the Malta Dock, AFD 8, which despite the extensive dry dock facilities in the island had a vital role to play between its arrival in August 1925 and the inevitable loss in June 1940.
After the Italian hostilities commenced and the bombing of Malta increased it was not safe to use AFD 8, consequently she spent much time docked down with just the walls and upperworks visible. And vulnerable, her berth could not be altered and a tow to safety was not even contemplated. This in itself was no safeguard, as increasingly near misses stressed the entire structure, aggravated by being submerged where all shock was amplified in the shallow harbour until finally she was declared sunk on 21 June 1940.
Who would think you can sink a sunk floating dock then !
And there AFD 8 would remain until 1947.

I need to do my longer posts here in English as with translate i cannot be certain what the outcome will be.
Grazie.
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de domenico
Inviato il: Domenica, 03-Gen-2016, 13:08
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A short history of HMS VALIANT in WW.II.
September 1939: she was working up in the West Indies after completing her major rebuild at Devonport 1937-39. Canadian troops convoy escort to UK February 1940. March 1940 to Scapa Flow with Home Fleet. Took part in the Norway campaign April-June 1940 (missed by U 38 on14 April during a troop convoy escort mission).
With Force H at Gibraltar later in June 1940, operation "Catapult" Mers-el-Kebir 3 July 1940, sortie at time of Punta Stilo 8 July, operation "Hurry" air attack on Cagliari and air reinforcements to Malta 2 August. Back to Liverpool 9 August. Again deployed to Gibraltar with Force H 20/29 August. Operaton "Hats/MB" Gibraltar to Alexandria 29 Aug./6 Sept. joining the Mediterranean Fleet, Dodecanese raids en route. 15/19 Sept. sortie, air raids on Benghazi, missed by sub CORALLO 16 Sept. 28 Sept./3 Oct. MF escort of troop reinforcements to Malta. 6/14 Oct. Operation "MB.6", MF cover of Malta convoy. 29 Oct./2 Nov. MF cover of convoys to Greece. 4/14 Nov. operation "MB.8" (convoy to Malta and return convoy ME.3, then air raid on Taranto). 25 Nov. MF cover of convoy to Souda Bay. 16 Dec. MF Operation "MC.3", attack in the Otranto Strait, shelling of Valona harbour 18/19 Dec.
3 Jan. 1941 shore bombardment of Bardia, 7 Jan. Operation "Excess", MF cover of troop convoys to Malta (MC.4 and MW.5) and Piraeus. VALIANT near-missed by SM79 bombers off Capo Spartivento 9 Jan. Diversionary sortie by MF 31 Jan./4 Feb. 19/23 Feb. MF cover of convoy MC.8 to Malta.
Capo Matapan 27/29 March 1941, VALIANT hits ZARA. 18/23 April MF covers reinforcements for Malta, 20 April shelling of Tripoli Harbour, VALIANT slightly damaged by a mine during the return trip. 6/12 May Operation"Tiger", MF cover of Malta convoys. 15 May MF at sea to protect Crete. VALIANT slightly damaged by two bombs during the Crete evacuation on 22 May 1941.

(more)

Messaggio modificato da de domenico il Domenica, 03-Gen-2016, 13:19


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de domenico
Inviato il: Domenica, 03-Gen-2016, 22:13
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19/22 Nov. 1941 MF (without carrier support) in a diversionary Malta operation to support Tobruk resupply convoys and Force K operations. 23/25 Nov. 1941 MF again sorties in support of Force K operating from Malta (loss of BARHAM).

19 Dec. 1941 Alexandria raid, hull badly breached and ship bottomed. Towed into drydock AFD-5 on 21 December. Damage so severe that the ship remained unseaworthy until 8/21 April 1942, when she sailed to the Durban drydock for major repairs lasting until July 1942. In Eastern Fleet at Kilindini then, but this was not very active apart from exercises in August, due to lack of destroyer escort. 7 January-5 March 1943 return to UK via Gibraltar, another refit at Devonport until 28 April 1943. After work-up at Scapa, earmarked for the Far East Fleet but sent to the Mediterranean instead, from Scapa Flow to Gibraltar 17 to 23 June, then on to Oran and by 5 July back at Alexandria. Sails 7 July for Operation "Husky"(Sicily landings).
2 Sept. shelling of Reggio Calabria, operation "Baytown".
10 Sept. meets Italian Fleet off Malta, then to covering force for Operation "Avalanche" (Salerno landings), 15 Sept. used for naval shore bombardment (WARSPITE damaged).
Back to UK, then sails from Scapa Flow for the Indian Ocean on 30 Dec. (with QUEEN ELIZABETH, back from repairs in the USA) thru the Mediiterranean. Arrives at Colombo 30 Jan. 1944.
21 March-3 April 1944 Operation "Diplomat": meeting with USS SARATOGA on 27 March coming in from the Pacific as a temporary reinforcement for the British East Indies Fleet (in exchange for HMS VICTORIOUS in 1943) until 18 May, 1944.
16-24 April Operation "Cockpit", carrier raid on Sabang (Sumatra).
6-27 May Operation "Transom", carrier raid on Surabaya (Java)..
22-27 July Operation "Crimson", carrier raid and naval bombardment on Sabang.
8 August floating dock collapses after being improperly flooded and sinks at Trincomalee with VALIANT inside, badly damaged, due to unrepaired damage to the drydock caused by a Japanese air attack in April 1942. VALIANT, which was fully loaded at 37,400 tons displacement at the time, suffers massive damage to her hull, torn open in many places. Both inner propeller shafts severed, port rudder damaged, indentations in the hull up to 18 in. deep, some of them extending almost the length of the vessel. Patched up locally to return home for major repairs. On arrival at Suez, her unrepaired areas and leaks had increased her draught so much that she grounded. remaining stuck for six hours. Denied the Suez Canal, she had to make a long, slow passage under heavy escort around South Africa, stopping en route at Durban and Capetown for further temporary repairs. She only arrived in the UK on 1 February 1945. The lost propellers and shafts were repaired, along with as much of the hull damage as was feasible without completely rebuilding the ship. The work was only finished after the Japanese surrender in August 1945, she was re-commissioned but with a reduced crew. Paid off into the Reserve Fleet in June, 1946, attached to HMS IMPERIEUSE as a seagoing training ship. For disposal in January, 1948.
A sad ending for a very good ship.

Messaggio modificato da de domenico il Martedì, 05-Gen-2016, 13:18


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Pinin
Inviato il: Lunedì, 04-Gen-2016, 12:39
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As an aside i believe this tonnage value is not correct:

QUOTE
AFD 27 (59.000 t), built CNR Palermo, completed 1936, acquired 9.1941, sold Netherlands East Indies Govt. 5.3.1947, sold Batavier (Tandjung Priok) 1948
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iceman
Inviato il: Lunedì, 04-Gen-2016, 18:46
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QUOTE (de domenico @ Lunedì, 24-Giu-2013, 12:13)

AFD 27 (59.000 t), built CNR Palermo, completed 1936, acquired 9.1941, sold Netherlands East Indies Govt. 5.3.1947, sold Batavier (Tandjung Priok) 1948
AFD 29 (7.000/9.500 t) built La Spezia, completed 1936, acquired 1942, sold Interservice Genevalux 1947
AFD 30 (1.600/2.500 t) , built in Italy, acquired 1942, sold Halal Shipping, Aden, 8.5.1946

This is a strange matter because all those 3 floating docks were Italian.

As far I know in AOI (Africa Orientale Italiana) there were only 2 floating docks:

GO 21 (unknown t)
GO 24 (7500 t) and built by OTO Livorno

The latter salvaged by US Navy became AFD 29

So as we have 3 ex Italian floating docks we should find out where the 3rd was captured and if GO 21 became AFD 27 or 30

Best Regards

Marco Ghiglino


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de domenico
Inviato il: Martedì, 05-Gen-2016, 12:49
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Marco, the AFD names I listed were Royal Navy ones, not US Navy. So this holds true for AFD 29 also.
By the way, just to complicate things, there were 34 AFDs in the US Navy list too.
AFD-29, later AFDL-29, was built by Doullot & Ewin at Mobile, Ala., in Sept. 1944, 200 ft, 800 tons. Scrapped in 1983.

Messaggio modificato da de domenico il Martedì, 05-Gen-2016, 13:03


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iceman
Inviato il: Martedì, 05-Gen-2016, 14:11
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Hello Francesco, I was not clear and complete with my explanation.

GO 24, later AFD 29 was only salvaged by US Navy and used to refloat also other Italian and German ships scuttled in Massawa but like all the other ships in Eritrea were assigned to UK / Royal Navy. So AFD 29 was the Royal Navy pennant.

The problems are:

- ex Italian GO 21 (also in Massawa) became the Royal Navy AFD 27 or 30?
- Royal Navy had 3 ex Italian Floating Docks but in AOI were present only 2 and in Libya none.....so I have no idea were was possible for the Royal Navy to capture another Italian floating dock!!!!!!

MG


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culverin
Inviato il: Martedì, 05-Gen-2016, 21:33
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AFD 27 ex Iranian Floating Dock.
The lift weight of 59,000 is an error. It is 5,900 tons.
This dock, built in Italy 1936 was never an Italian floating dock, Bacino Gallegiante, and consequently there is no G.O number.
It was constructed for and operated by the Iranian Government being located somewhere in the port of Bandar Shapur, a rather remote location at the end of a railway line where the stifling heat meant most work was conducted at night, even then the temperature was oppressive. As was the location itself.
In August 1941 the British and Indians planned Operation Countenance, the Port of Bandar Shapur being Operation Bishop with the Naval component being Force B.
Very briefly, amongst the vessels taking part was the Insect class river gunboat HMS Cockchafer and it was she alone which captured the Iranian floating dock intact undamaged on August 25th 1941 when it was duly named AFD 27, used by the Allies and in March 1942 moved to Massawa.
There is much available to see elsewhere regards Operation Bishop, including numerous photographs. Search Bandar Shapur for more including www.awm.gov.au where images (134395) exist of the Iranian gunboats Chavaaz / Chahbaaz, CZ and Karkas, KR in the dock.
I have not yet seen an image of the dock itself.

Finally, if AFD 29 was G.O. 24, surely AFD 30 was G.O 21, both captured at Massawa sunk then raised by the Americans.
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de domenico
Inviato il: Mercoledì, 06-Gen-2016, 12:42
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Thank you kindly, Culverin, your range of fire is everything but short...


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iceman
Inviato il: Mercoledì, 06-Gen-2016, 15:54
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Culverin, fantastic research!!!! thanks alot!!!!!

MG


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WinstonChurchill
Inviato il: Mercoledì, 06-Gen-2016, 17:45
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A really interesting research. Thank you guys ___________________________________showoff123.gif .


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culverin
Inviato il: Mercoledì, 06-Gen-2016, 21:53
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It would be marvellous if more details on this Iranian floating dock could be found, should not be difficult, and may appear in the numerous Italian journals.
Built by Cantieri Navali Riuniti, Palermo in 1936. specifications, details of purchase and if for use of government vessels only or merchant ships as well. Did she go direct to Bandar Shapur originally or elsewhere.

Francesco, your piece on Valiant is splendid and easily digested and understood.

Needs must, so i shall get on with AFD 8 in Malta. What purpose or service she served between loss and 1947 is somewhat of a mystery, thereafter i have lots of information to the time her remains were finally cleared, amongst the dozens of other wrecks which littered the assorted Malta harbours. No different to many other ports all over the World in that respect except a dock of this vast size did not prove easy to salvage, and then some sections were to become very useful.

Messaggio modificato da culverin il Mercoledì, 06-Gen-2016, 21:55
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culverin
Inviato il: Giovedì, 11-Feb-2016, 22:10
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What would later become AFD 8, or the Malta Floating Dock, was originally the German Kiel VIII floating dock. After the armistice of 11th November 1918, this dock, another a similar size and 2 smaller docks were given to Great Britain as war reparations,
A decision was made to dispose of the 2 smaller docks but retain and enlarge the 2 larger docks for use by the British Royal Navy, 1 in Malta, 1 in Singapore.
As built dock VIII was 742' (Imperial foot, 12 inches) with a lift capacity of 40,000 tons, so too small for the latest generation of post war battleships and battlecruisers building and planned.
So, they had to be lengthened, if practical.
(to be continued, in English. Thank you)
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