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WinstonChurchill |
Inviato il: Lunedì, 25-Apr-2016, 09:53
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Administrator Gruppo: Admin Messaggi: 3920 Utente Nr.: 1 Iscritto il: 22-Giu-2012 |
Scusami Riccardo questo misunderstanding è figlio di una mia colpevole omissione: dovevo chiarire prima che il nostro Napoleone non è italiano .
Hello Nap my sources does not mention the presence of other ships during the attack so I think the only way to clarify this point is to perform a research at the USMM. She could be "a small motor minesweeper" or another ship assigned to the "vigilanza foranea", but is very difficult to say. -------------------- “Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm”
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napoleone |
Inviato il: Mercoledì, 27-Apr-2016, 17:26
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Gruppo: Members Messaggi: 22 Utente Nr.: 132 Iscritto il: 10-Ott-2015 |
Mille Grazie, Tanti Saluti da Cagliari Nap |
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napoleone |
Inviato il: Giovedì, 28-Apr-2016, 20:04
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Gruppo: Members Messaggi: 22 Utente Nr.: 132 Iscritto il: 10-Ott-2015 |
Ciao Winston ,ciao Francesco during my research i found a discussion on the forum marinearchiv about a confidential report "Enemy or Italian Warships and Merchant Vessels sunk or damaged in waters of Southern Sardinia". It is mentioned in the US War Diary,NOB Palermo,Port of Cagliari 11 Feb.1944. Do you have more information about this report? Tanti Saluti e mille Grazie Nap |
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WinstonChurchill |
Inviato il: Venerdì, 29-Apr-2016, 12:50
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Administrator Gruppo: Admin Messaggi: 3920 Utente Nr.: 1 Iscritto il: 22-Giu-2012 |
In fact the source cited says that, but I don't have any information about this report. You might try asking at the NARA .
"[...] 10 February Confidential report on "Enemy or Italian Warships and Merchant Vessels sunk or damaged in waters of Southern Sardinia" forwarded to Commander-in-Chief, Mediterranean in compliance with his confidential dispatch 031810. Bad weather conditions delayed sailing of Pompeo Magno. James Randall completed discharge Jennings (T). Empire Lass (T), and Espero awaiting loading. British Patience (T) awaiting escort to Bizerte. Mull waiting to escort tankers to Maddalena upon completion loading. 11 February Naval Off icer-in-Charge, Maddalena fs request for additional information on proposed civilian shipping between Cagliari and North Africa answered by my confidential dispatch 111545A. This message informed Naval Off icer-in-Charge, Maddalena for action, and Commander-in-Chief, Mediterranean, Flag Officer, Western Italy, Commandant, Naval Operating Base, Palermo, and Senior Naval Officer, Eastern Sicily for info that the Regional Allied Commissioner, Sardinia, stated there was no such traffic anticipated in the near future. Secret report on "U.S. Navy Controlled Ports in Sardinia, information on" forwarded to Commander-in-Chief, Mediterranean in compliance with his confidential dispatch 162215 of January and Commandant, Naval Operating Base, Palermo Ts letter NBAS-2, Serial 987, dated IS January 1944. Bad weather delayed loading Empire Lass (T). John Cropper, Jennings (T), and Espero awaiting loading 12 February Pompeo Magno and Mull awaiting sailing. Commander-in-Chief, Mediterranean requested to grant Of f icer-in-Charge, U.S. Naval Detachment, Cagliari authority to sail Italian cruisers assigned to Sardinia - Italy ferry service to Naples, Taranto or Bari, as personnel scheduled for those ports become available. Empire Lass (T) completed loading 9000 barrels of 100 octane gasoline. John Cropper, Jennings (T), and Espero awaiting loading. British Patience (T) awaiting escort. Mull awaiting sailing. Italian cruiser loaded 500 Italian personnel and departed for Naples. [...] -------------------- “Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm”
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napoleone |
Inviato il: Sabato, 30-Apr-2016, 15:26
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Gruppo: Members Messaggi: 22 Utente Nr.: 132 Iscritto il: 10-Ott-2015 |
Hi Winston, thanks for the Info,will be quite difficult to find it i think,but maybe it's worth it Mille Grazie da Cagliari Nap |
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napoleone |
Inviato il: Martedì, 03-Mag-2016, 19:59
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Gruppo: Members Messaggi: 22 Utente Nr.: 132 Iscritto il: 10-Ott-2015 |
Hi Winston, you wrote the owner of the Salpi was the "Peninsulare Societa di Navigazione" in Genoa. I found an abbreviaton"Peninsulare Italiana" and i found another company in Genoa called" Peninsulare Societa Italiana di Cabotaggio".Are these all different names for the same company? Thanks a lot for your help Nap |
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WinstonChurchill |
Inviato il: Mercoledì, 04-Mag-2016, 17:03
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Administrator Gruppo: Admin Messaggi: 3920 Utente Nr.: 1 Iscritto il: 22-Giu-2012 |
Well I used the name of the company found on the Lloyd's register of ships but in fact there is another source, that seems to quote the RINA (Registro Italiano Navale), which calls this company "Peninsulare Societa Italiana di Cabotaggio":
Source: Lloyd's Register of Ships 1940-41 Link to enlarge the picture: http://i65.tinypic.com/2pyvv54.jpg Source: Pro Schiaffino, Le Carrette degli Armatori Genovesi, Nuova Editrice Genovese, Genova, 1996. Link to enlarge the picture: http://i63.tinypic.com/i6dnid.jpg -------------------- “Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm”
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napoleone |
Inviato il: Giovedì, 05-Mag-2016, 13:57
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Gruppo: Members Messaggi: 22 Utente Nr.: 132 Iscritto il: 10-Ott-2015 |
Hi Winston, mille grazie,so probably it's the same company,maybe just different names,because the lloyds register should be reliable ,i think Thanks again Nap |
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napoleone |
Inviato il: Mercoledì, 25-Mag-2016, 21:08
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Gruppo: Members Messaggi: 22 Utente Nr.: 132 Iscritto il: 10-Ott-2015 |
Hi Winston, if you look at the measurements of the Salpi in the Lloyd's register you have an abbreviation "Q",does this mean quarterdeck and this quarterdeck was under the poopdeck? I think "B" stands for Bridgedeck,with 16 feet quite short,this was a single deck or on top of the quarterdeck.You can give me an idea how the ship looked like? Thanks very much for your help Greetings Nap Messaggio modificato da Miky il Mercoledì, 25-Mag-2016, 21:23 |
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WinstonChurchill |
Inviato il: Giovedì, 26-Mag-2016, 01:38
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Administrator Gruppo: Admin Messaggi: 3920 Utente Nr.: 1 Iscritto il: 22-Giu-2012 |
This is the meaning of the letters:
Well it is not easy to say, all is possible, but the vessel's profile could be similar to this: -------------------- “Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm”
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napoleone |
Inviato il: Giovedì, 26-Mag-2016, 11:24
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Gruppo: Members Messaggi: 22 Utente Nr.: 132 Iscritto il: 10-Ott-2015 |
Hi Winston, thanks very,very much for your Plan,it helped me a lot. Just one more question,in lloyd's,after te abbreviation 1 DK(Deck) i found 2 Tr,it's an abbreviation for the holds?, and if there's no Tr mentioned, does it mean no holds? Thanks again for your help Greetings from Cagliari Nap |
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WinstonChurchill |
Inviato il: Sabato, 28-Mag-2016, 11:18
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Administrator Gruppo: Admin Messaggi: 3920 Utente Nr.: 1 Iscritto il: 22-Giu-2012 |
You must consider that I don't have evidence that this profile is right: it's only a guess, so be careful. I think that "tr" could be an abbreviation for tiers: so 1 deck 2 tiers but I am not sure. I will look into the matter
-------------------- “Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm”
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napoleone |
Inviato il: Domenica, 29-Mag-2016, 16:20
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Gruppo: Members Messaggi: 22 Utente Nr.: 132 Iscritto il: 10-Ott-2015 |
Hi Winston, Mille grazie,i tried already finding photos of ships with similar measurements,thanks again. Hope we manage to find out this TR abbreviation. Greetings Nap |
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